Fly Fishing the Southeast

The on-line journal of fly fishing throughout the Southeast United States.

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Insights on Fly Fishing for Permit
an interview with Capt Tom Rowland, Key West

    
   
   
    Harry Hall:  The last time we talked you were experimenting with different crab flies, looking for something that might be possibly better than a Merkin Crab; you also told me that you suspected that olfactory sense could be the biggest key influencing why a permit is so much major eager to take a real crab vs. a crab fly.  How is your quest going, any major revelations?

Tom Rowland: Unfortunately, I have no new breakthroughs to report.  I have been trying virtually everything.  From using Cyber Flexx as legs to molding special claws from latex, I seem to have tried it all.  I am getting no where.  I mean, I am not making any headway that is remarkably better than a Merkin.  I am disappointed in our flies and hope to come up with something good.  I enjoy throwing live crabs to permit and watching them eat the real thing.  Through this type of fishing I have determined without a doubt that the trigger is not scent as so many people have stated rather it is the motion of the legs. 

When a freshly dead crab is presented to a permit, he looks at it just like a fly.  It can be moved, twitched or dropped as to make it look alive and the fish might eat it, but it is obvious that he doesn't really want it.  The same reaction to all the flies I have ever thrown.  When a live crab is presented well, there is little or no hesitation, it is an attack and he is going to finish the job.  Occasionally fly's can get that response when cast properly to the right fish but more often than not it is looked upon with disdain or overlooked altogether.  Permit fishermen need to be placing the movement of the fly at the top of the list if they want to be more successful with permit.

Hall:  If you have come to believe that smell is not a major factor with permit, do you still think it important to tie permit flies without any thread cement?

Rowland:  I think it is far less important than it used to be. So much of my fishing has changed and with it, many of my opinions have changed.  I still believe that scent is not a major factor in getting a fish to eat, however, I would not say that unnatural scent would not deter a fish from biting. 

Hall:  You said " I enjoy throwing live crabs to permit and watching them eat the real thing.  Through this type of fishing I have determined without a doubt that the trigger is not scent as so many people have stated rather it is the motion of the legs."  A crab that is trying to hide on the bottom only moves his mouth parts, this "leg motion" is when the fly is falling to the bottom?
 

Rowland:  Exactly!  The motion triggers the fish to eat and most permit that I catch on live crabs see the crab fleeing towards the bottom and eat it LONG before it makes it to the bottom.  That is the difference between live crabs and flies it seems.  Flies look just good enough to get the permit interested and they will follow the fly to the bottom, look at it, and then eat it.  When you throw the real thing, they see it and eat it, right now.
 
Using live crabs personally and with customers has taught me more about effectively fly fishing for permit than years of rejections ever did.  When you catch them on crabs you get to see how they are really reacting to a real prey which has opportunistically presented itself.  You see how they eat it with no hesitation and how they remain relaxed, there is simply nothing wrong.  Even catching 50 permit a year on fly, guides rarely see a fish eat a fly with the same body posture, and attitude. When you do see the same response as a live crab to a new fly, you know you are onto something.
 
I compare this to when I was a guide in Wyoming, Idaho and Montana.  I would watch a fish feed on naturals for an hour.  I could see how he was keyed into a certain stage in the nymphal cycle.  The trout would eat other things occasionally but it was obvious that he wanted a certain stage.  You could drift a fly over the fish and catch him on something completely different but the fish would eat it differently.  Instead of rhythmically eating without hesitation or caution or even curiosity the trout would drift downstream with the fly and look at it and look at it before finally eating it.  If I caught the fish in that manner, I was never satisfied but rather disappointed and would sometimes even pull the fly away before he ate, give him some time and change flies to try to catch him on a fly that he really thought was what he was keyed into.
 
Permit fishing is the same way.  Catching the permit is one thing, but to make a true breakthrough I think that I need to continue towards developing flies that the fish will eat the same way they eat live crabs.

Hall:  Many Key's guides tie, and recommend tying a Merkin with a body about the size of a nickel.  Yet most of the live crabs they fish with are much larger than that.  Have you tried tying crab patterns much larger than that "nickel" size?

Rowland:  I think my flies would be closer to the size of a quarter.  I like a triangular shape which I feel helps the fly fall to the bottom at an angle resembling the angle that a live crab shoots to the bottom.  I have zero confidence in the round Merkins or round crab flies.
 
You are right that most live crabs used for bait are larger than the flies traditionally thrown and there are reasons for this.  Personally, I throw the smallest live crab that the conditions will allow.  I have even adjusted my tackle to handle lighter baits.  I use braided line and 8 foot spinning rods to accommodate the lighter crabs.  A live crab is thrown by itself with a hook through the shell.  I rarely add weight so the crab has to be large enough to be comfortably thrown.  When flyfishing, the opposite is true.  I have experimented with flies the same size as the live crabs and it just proves too difficult for most anglers to cast comfortably.  If accuracy is lost, it really doesn't matter what the fly looks like; the fish isn't going to see it anyway.
 
   Capt. Tom Rowland Fly Fishing Permit
A Merkin Crab Fly is Tom Rowland's first choice for permit
    Hall:  Have you used, and have you had any success with pattern that are intended to be continually striped?  Like the mantis shrimp patterns that have become popular further south in the Caribbean?

Rowland:  I do not use them much but if I am fishing for these tiny little 2-8 pound micro permit they can be effective. I see a lot of pictures of the tiny, tiny permit from down south and assume that is what they are catching them on but I am sure that they catch bigger fish as well.  I have heard the fishing situations described and very little in my area seems to be the similar to those situations where those flies are being used.  However, I am willing to try anything.

Hall:  I know you like to permit fish when the wind is up a bit.  Is this because the permit are more active in a stiff breeze, or is it because you can get a closer approach on a windy day?

Rowland:  A little of both.  It is definitely easier to sneak up on the fish when it is windy.  Intimidated anglers often ask me about fishing in the wind and I tell them that it is definitely much easier to throw a fly 40 feet into a hard wind than it is to have to throw it 110 with accuracy with no wind.  The summer conditions of virtually no wind make approaching permit very difficult and I often will have a tough time getting within 90 feet of the fish before it knows we are there and begins to move away from us.  Windy conditions allow us to move towards the permit without being noticed. 

I also believe that the fish are feeding more heavily on windy days but this is probably due to the barometric pressure making them very comfortable rather than simply the wind.

Hall:  It must be frustrating fishing in the wind for an elusive fish, especially when you get a fly angler who may only have a background on eastern trout streams.  What do you tell new clients about getting prepared to come down to Key West for a permit trip?


 Rowland:  Flyfishing for permit without wind can be frustrating.  I really like the wind and feel we need it to be successful.  I can teach anglers to handle the wind and show them the techniques necessary to get the fly to the fish.  I encourage all anglers whether they have held a rod no larger than a 3 weight to the accomplished saltwater angler to practice with a rod, line, leader and fly similar to what we will be using.  A 10 weight rod, weight forward line, 9 foot leader and a weighted Merkin are standard but can be altered for the conditions.  The more time an angler has with this combo in his hands, the better off they will be when on the bow.

Hall:  A sixty foot cast is not much when you are standing in your backyard, but sixty foot into the wind from a rocking flats skiff is like the other side of the universe for the angler who cannot get the fly thirty foot past the rod tip.  Realistically, how far do most of your angler have to cast?

Rowland:  The harder the wind is blowing the shorter the casts.  Casting distance is based purely and simply on the conditions and fish behavior.  Some days you have to cast farther than others to get the job done.  I guess if you put me on the spot and ask for a distance figure I guess I could say that it is better to be able to cast 50 feet quickly and accurately than to cast 110 feet with little accuracy and a lot of false casts.  An angler who can throw 50-60 feet comfortably, accurately and consistently will be successful at permit fishing.  Some fish are caught much closer, even as close as 15 feet from the boat.

Hall:  How do you tie your permit leaders, length, tippet size, etc.?

Rowland:  Leaders are completely dependent on the conditions.  In the summer calm conditions, I often will use a 16-20 foot leader with a small fly.  Conversely, winter windy conditions may demand that I use a Rio Clear tip line with a 4 foot leader to turn the fly over into a 25 knot wind.  Like the rest of permit fishing, nothing is written in stone and you better be ready to change with the conditions, fish behavior and opportunities.

Hall:  What about hooks, I have been partial to Gamakatsu SC 15  for crab type flies.  Do you have any hook preferences?

Rowland:  I rarely use the SC 15 because of the shorter shank.  In the Gamakatsu I use the SS 15, but the best hook that I have found bar none is the Matzuo Plain Shank Offset 2/0.   also use a Matzuo jig hook with a 90* eye for some of my more realistic patterns.

Tom Rowland fly fishes for permit out of Key West Florida
Capt. Tom Rowland with Fly Caught Permit

Hall:  Now that you have a larger boat in your fleet, will you be making "permit" trips to the Gulf wrecks?

Rowland:  No question about it.  Permit are my favorite fish and I love seeing them in every situation.  Seeing a 200 fish school on a gulf wreck is one of the most exciting things I have ever experienced. These fish are very catchable on fly as well as crabs.
I will also go to the reef and see large schools.  While they may be easier to fool on the wrecks, often they are MUCH more difficult to land as they will dive into to wreck and cut you off or become food for a 400 pound Jewfish.  Anything can happen out there.
 

Hall:  I know they are available almost year-round, but if you had an open day, when would you recommend as prime season?

 

Rowland:  Permit are available all year.  I used to not recommend April because the fish were on the wrecks, but now that I can get there comfortably, there is no season that I do not or cannot fish for them effectively.  All things considered, if someone wanted to fly fish for permit, I would have to choose February and March as the prime permit time for the year to catch them on fly.  However, they can be caught any time.
    
   

Hall:  In the August/September 2004 issue of Saltwater Fly Fishing there is an article by Jack Samson "A Fine Point on Permit."  The article centers around an experienced carp fly angler from England who, on his first permit trip ever, caught the first 9 permit he cast to while fishing out of the El Pescador Punta Gorta lodge in Belize.

Upon reading the article for a second time, I realized that perhaps I read more between the lines than was actually printed.  This angler from England who applied what he knew about fly fishing for carp to permit, this was something I could really relate to.  I have never caught many permit.  Caught a few "stupid" fish that were following rays, head down, jumping on anything that moved within the ray's mud, totally oblivious to everything else around.  Caught a few permit while chumming bonefish on the sea side of Biscayne Bay.  Caught a few fish over hard bottom out in the Gulf.  And stumbled across a few other fish here and there.  But, I have never made a deliberate excursion to catch a permit. I have done quite a bit of fly fishing for carp.  From my experience with carp, it's not exactly that you often see the carp take the fly, but you can definitely learn to key into the carps change in body language to time your hook set.  You can also learn to read the carp and judge whether or not you need to move the fly or let it sit on the bottom.

When Jack Samson asked the English fly angler Jeremy Hermann how he set the hook on these 9 permit.  I knew exactly what Jeremy was trying to convey when he said that he set the hook at the same moment that the permit picked up the fly, just as he would do if he were carp fishing.

Then at the end of the article I was left with the impression that Samson completely missed the point of what Jeremy was trying to say about permit (and carp) fly fishing.  Samson closes the article by stating: "What is the solution? I think an angler should strike as soon as the permit gets to the fly -- Instead of waiting to see it tip down to take the fly or waiting for that telltale twitch of the line." 

Tom, what do you tell your anglers about when to set the hook, and what to watch or feel for?

 Rowland:  I do not agree with Samson.  Striking when the fish gets to the fly will be a mistake in most situations.  I can clearly read a fish's body movement and tell when he is excited, attacking and eating.  I have never waited on the tug on the line and do not coach my customers to do that either.  To be an exceptional permit angler, you have to be able to read the fish.  When the fish is eating, it will quiver or shake slightly and the angler should make a long very slow strip which will come tight on the fish if he has indeed eaten the fly.  If the angler was mistaken, the long slow strip will often excite the fish into striking the fly.
Many times I am sure that a permit sees the fly fall to the bottom, goes over to it but looses it in the bottom.  He knows something is there so he begins to look intently.  If you have ever snorkeled on the flats you will know that if you look intently in virtually any area of turtle grass you will see something living.  When the permit is looking around for the fly, often he finds something real and eats it.  Striking at that point is a grave mistake because the fly is ripped out of the grass near the fish and it spooks them every time.  Making the long 2-3 foot slow strip crawls the fly away and often draws attention and gets eaten.  If the fish pounces the fly, the strip will stop and anglers should strip strike.
 		    
         
   

World traveling fly fishing permit angler Tom Rowland
Indo-Pacific Permit Tom Rowland caught in Australia
 

    
    Tom Rowland started his career guiding out of Jackson Hole, Wyoming.  He earned his Captain's License in 1994 and began guiding in the Florida Keys.

Capt. Tom is a consistently successful tournament angler.  He has been featured on numerous national TV angling programs.

Capt. Tom is extremely active in the angling world, if you wish to book a guide trip with Tom, I think you will find that he makes the extra effort to find a date for you.

Capt. Tom Rowland    Key West, Florida
                                      (305) 294-7447  Home
                                      (305) 797-2238  Cell       
          Permitfly4@aol.com     www.saltwaterexperience.com
 

  

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